Season 5, Episode 8: A Manifesto for Flourishing

Written By Climate Change And Happiness
 
person walking beside snow covered trees

image credit | Nenad Radojčić

Season 5, Episode 8: A Manifesto for Flourishing

Thomas and Panu reflected on the end of the year and the winter season. They invited listeners with some provocative questions: “What does the Earth in me need?” “How to care for your Soul in a world and systems that are soulless?”  “How to honor fatigue after a tough year?” “How to keep an open mind, an open heart, open breath, and open hands?” And the podcast’s theme question: “How to be happy, ethically, in the modern world?” Panu talked about his explorations with somatic therapy and breathing exercises. Thomas read a selection—“A Manifesto for Flourishing" (at minute 22:30)—from his new book Surviving Climate Anxiety. Join us for an honest and uplifting episode. 

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Transcript

Transcript edited for clarity and brevity.

Thomas Doherty: Well hello, I'm Thomas Doherty.

Panu Pihkala: I am Panu Pihkala.

Doherty: And welcome to climate change and happiness. This is our podcast to show for people around the globe who are thinking and feeling deeply about the personal side of climate change, particularly their emotional responses and what it means to be happy in the modern world. That's our mission to stop and think about this. And as you might remember, Panu and I met some years ago, both inspired by these questions and Panu is in Helsinki and I am typically in Portland, Oregon, but today I'm in New York. So we have this international dialogue and it's toward the end of the year 2025 and we're beginning to take stock of our personal lives and our work and the state of the world. And so I invite you, we invite you all to do the same. And that's where we are today in our conversation. Panu, you've been busy. What are some of the highlights of your activities recently in your work on climate change, climate emotions, teaching, writing?

Pihkala: Yes, nice to be discussing with you, Thomas. It's been a while. We were busy recording episodes at the beginning of the autumn and now it's been a sort of recording break. In Finland, many things have been happening as usual. There's been some more events on climate emotions compared to what it was like a couple of years ago. Not as much attention as we had before the COVID-19 pandemic, but some movement towards that. But generally in Finland, of course, there's lot of worry about military aggression near Europe. So that's on a lot of people's minds. And some very direct consequences of that are happening in my life also. In a couple of days, I'll be going to military rehearsal of six days. The Finnish system is so that the military consists of reserves and then they try to find suitable positions for people depending on their professions and expertise and so on. So there's been some nice facilitation and also an effort to slow down its November end of the year what the Celts used to call Samhain and this period of the leaves falling from the trees and bare in choirs as Shakespeare put it, invites for some reflection. But I've realized that you've been also quite busy, Thomas, lately.

Doherty: Yeah, I've been identifying with the autumn and the changing of the seasons myself. yeah, so again, this is I was in a yoga. I was doing a yoga class here recently and trying to take care of myself physically. And I was really had this insight about kind of taking care of the earth within me. You know, it was a nice way to think about health is that when we take up when we take care of our own health, we're taking care of the earth within us the earth in a side of us. And, you know, because yes, there's this little more sluggish energy that that can happen toward this time of the year. As the days get shorter, and the weather gets colder. And we have to we have to warm ourselves and we have to bring our energy out. So yeah, so listeners, you can think about how how you're feeling in terms of the earth in you. We get so caught up in our heads and into politics and global events that sometimes it's easy for that basic lived experience, our mind and body get to get lost. And yeah, for me, I have been traveling, my book came out in October. I'm doing some media and talking to people and trying to essentially sell the book and share it, share it around. So it's a lot of it's a lot of marketing experiences, which isn't necessarily my favorite activity. So there's been a sense of I know, for me a sense of feeling unrooted a little bit. I think we might have talked about that old story, you know, from the 19th century where the Explorer was in Africa, traveling and have had the native porters carrying all their gear and then the traveler wanted to keep going and the porters wanted to stop and traveler was saying what's why do need to stop and the porters said, well, we're waiting for our souls to catch up to us, you know, and so I feel like there's a little bit of that, you know, catching up. with ourselves.

Pihkala: Seriously.

Doherty: Yeah, exactly.

Pihkala: Thanks for sharing that and that would be a nice metaphor for the industrialized world also. It really should wait for its soul to catch up.

Doherty: Yeah, well, lot of modern world is soul-less, right? It's not about the soul. It's about products and product productivity and the luxury of the soul is not there. Or it's commodified. Or some people have the luxury to work on that while others are just doing basic survival. So yeah, yeah. So I think a couple of themes for our talk.

What does it what does it mean to be happy? And how do we come back to our to our happiness? And what does it mean to flourish? And also, you know, the long haul nature of this, I think, some of the things I've seen about climate change and policy and the news lately has been about fatigue, public fatigue on working on these issues. And, of course, because there's so much resistance and so much injustice in the world. Just bearing witness to all of that, particularly in the United States, we've had a really tough time in the United States, a lot of problems with the US government and dysfunction and injustice. And, you know, it's just fatiguing to sit with all of that. And, you know, what does it mean to come back to the to our values and our energy and things like that?

Pihkala: Yeah, and growingly the situation is called something like the polycrisis, the many interlapping and interacting crises which we are facing. And in addition to eco emotions and climate emotions, I find myself more often on speaking assignments talking about polycrisis emotions and sometimes one aspect or facit of the crisis is more at the forefront than sometimes others. So, lots of compassion and determination for the caring folks in the US. And at the same time, when we are discussing these things which are on our minds at this time of the year and in our lives, we are sort of journeying with the part four of Thomas's book, Surviving Climate Anxiety.

We've done a couple of podcast episodes on the book, mostly about part one and part two, which were coping and identity. Then there's part three, healing, which is also much about anxiety and grief and despair and the power of place and so on that resonates with a lot of teams in this podcast. As does the whole book actually, so it's sort of extended version and a lot of creativity around the themes which we often discuss here. when we take a look at part four, Thomas, what's on your mind?

Doherty: Yeah. Well, the part four is called flourishing and that's it's sort of like after you spend time with your grief and loss and your basic coping and your environmental values, you know, what does it mean to you know, what would it mean to be happy and thrive in a life as I say in the book, you know, with an open mind, open heart, open breath and open hands. And so, you know, the open mind is being flexible and patient and continuing to have a growth mindset and learn. And then you know, the open heart is this capacity to take in all the good stuff and the bad stuff. And that's the challenge. If we as we've talked about again and again, most of the news everybody gets about climate change is negative, not the positive stuff. And it can feel grim. So you've got to really work hard to take in the good. And then when I say open breath, You know, that's really literally like breathing being in our body. And all of that sort of stuff.

You know, listeners, you can just even just now just take a breath like Pana is doing, you know, just you know, because it's easy for our breath to get tight. You know, this whole idea like I talked about earlier, the earth in me, you know, the earth in me needs open breath, it needs oxygen. And then open breath also stands in for mindfulness and being present in the present moment. And then open hands. That's kind of like. Well, I think that's a neat metaphor too, because my hands are open. That means I can grasp things and I could pick up things and I can collect things. You know, my hands are closed kind of in a fist or something like that. You know, I can't, you know, really. So, you know, so open hands, that’s sort of the general big big picture for that chapter.

Pihkala: Opening up and being open. As a very literal example from my personal life this autumn has been that I've been learning stuff with a somatic, therapeutic person and it's been nice to experiment with sort of primitive and random type of breathing.

Doherty: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Pihkala: For many years I've sometimes done this count to something type of breathing like the 5, 6, 7 method is one version of that but I hadn't really done this even more primitive and more varied style and it's really helpful I find so just sharing a very practical example of something which in my case has enabled more openness.

Doherty: And what is it tell me about the practice it how is it more varied like what's an example.

Pihkala: Well, yeah, there's many ways in which one can use it, for example, really pushing the air out from your lungs. And then also breathing in very deeply so that you can feel also the upper corners of your lungs filling up and then doing that in a—not always in a rhythmic fashion, so that also helps with the muscles near the chest if they have some tightness as often happens for people like me who work a lot with laptops in addition to being outdoors.

Doherty: Yeah, yeah. So doing that, you know, even in the yoga class that I was describing earlier, you know, sometimes, you know, the class will encourage people just to, you know, really like let it out. That primal that primal sound can be really releasing and then eventually, usually, will then tone itself to more of a, you know, when you get through it, but first of all, you got to just go and get all that out. So yeah, well, I read about screaming therapy comes and goes, but every 10 years, people rediscover it as a therapeutic thing. But I just saw an article in the New York Times about screaming therapy. And so that's another version of this primal, the primal scream. It's just it's essentially just like letting go of control to let our body express itself as it wants to.

Pihkala: Yeah, and listeners, can find an earlier episode of this podcast where we discuss Primal Scream in connection with a Finnish campaign around shouting your difficult ego emotions out. Yeah, something like two or even two and a half, three years ago, it's been a while that we have been doing this. So that's one aspect related to—

Doherty: Yeah, the shouting man.

Pihkala: —flourishing and keeping it flowing and under that part four there is a chapter on spirit also and well the etymological roots of spirit in many languages are literally related to breaths and breathing so we are dealing with some fundamental stuff here.

Doherty: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. we've got the primal stuff in your body. then I think, you know, part of the book in the chapter on happiness, you know, describes some case studies of people and families. And what does it mean to like on a mundane day to day level schedule your life such that you can like—particularly if you're in a in a in a family with parents and children or whatever—you've got to schedule all of your activities and try to balance your needs and the family's needs and, and your needs for work. And so some of this, you know, really comes down to how we take care of ourselves day to day. And there's this whole permission to allow yourself to be happy. That's another big, big piece that that that is underlying this. Because even if part of us wants to be happy, there's another part of us that might say we don't have permission to be happy.

And that's a really helpful thing for people to think about because in there are many ways many activists kind of sayings and things that's basically safe. If one person isn't free, none are free, or if one person is suffering, all of us are suffering. And so when we're aware of suffering in the world and injustice, as a way of being in solidarity with those people that are suffering or as bearing witness, sometimes it precludes the sense that we can be happy. We're not allowed to be happy or there's a guilt or shame placed on that because of a privilege or something. So that kind of messes with our ability to just be happy. And that there's two ways to deal with that. One is to just ignore all the other stuff and just be happy and just put it out of your mind. And say, you know, just don't think about that right now. Let's just be in the moment.

And that's I mean, I do that myself, you know, I'll say Thomas just let's not look at the news and think about this. It's a beautiful day. The winds blowing and the trees and the leaves are falling or whatever and let it just be here now and that so there's kind of a pushing that away. You know, the meaning focused way to do it is to say, “well, yes, we're, it's okay to have multiple feelings at the same time and to bear witness to these other things while also saying that we all deserve happiness.” It's unfair to let this situation take our happiness away, particularly for young children. You we don't want them to not be happy. We want them to have a genuine life. So there are there are there are a couple ways to deal with this, I think. But the latter is really more about finding ethical happiness that I can be doing my best and following my values and my ethics. And you know, if I have a good day and I work hard, I should be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor with my friends or celebrate my work or other people's work. And it's not fair. It's not a healthy coping skill to put all of our pleasure aside and just feel guilty and sad all of the time. That's, but you can't force people to feel things they have to they have to navigate this themselves.

Pihkala: Yeah, much resonating with what you say and even though one can't force things, at least one can invite others to think about how they are negotiating climate guilt, for example, or feelings of not being able to be enough. This Rittamättö myyydentone in Finnish, which we have been discussing sometimes also in this podcast. And it can be complex. Sometimes people can then feel guilt about not being able to get rid of guilt. So getting rid of those vicious circles and loops would be important to be able to start. Start over and you have a sub-chapter on relationships in that part of the book and of course the social dynamic is very crucial here as you say and if one can find acceptance from trusted others. It greatly helps in this negotiation of guilt and happiness, I think.

Doherty: Yeah. Yeah, one of the cases in the in the book, Sam and Liberty, a couple, you know, they were struggling, Liberty was wanting them to enjoy life, you know, what's the point of being alive if I can't live fully. And Sam was more stuck on ethics and the right thing to do. And you know, in this in the story, Sam came around to the idea that he didn't have to choose between being ethical and experiencing joy. Like that's a false. That's a false dichotomy, a false choice, you know, and so the idea that ethical flourishing means, you know, happiness in line with your values, that your good feelings need to make sense within your within your ethics and not just it basically your good feelings need to make sense in terms of your ethics, not just your ego. So it's not just pleasure. So it's not about disavowal of knowledge and responsibility about climate change or injustice, but or suppressing.

Pihkala: Basically. Hmm.

Doherty: But it's about appreciating the good things honestly and in the present moment while also having an awareness that things could be much better. So that gratitude and satisfaction have a place alongside moments of outrage and anger. So it's really a both and instead of an either or. And it takes a lot. It takes a lot of work. That's another thing I came up with my colleague Ariana. Ariana and I are working on an editorial about the modern times and coping and you know that we need to pull on our best selves when we're feeling the worst. You know, it really is. It is this ethical challenge. It's a challenge to aspire to. Have you had any moments lately yourself where you've felt you had a balance between your, because I know you're highly aware of the state of the world and if you're left to your own devices, you'd probably be pretty morose about it all. So, but have you had any times to sort of where you balanced some of that reality, cold reality with positive feelings?

Pihkala: Yeah, thanks for asking and that idea of being able to feel many things and many emotions and sometimes almost at once or at least at close sequence with each other. So that's very important also. And generally I just tend to practice a sort of existentialist type of acceptance, so sort of accepting that it's going to be flawed anyway and it's going to be okay anyway. It easily leads towards this sort of accepting ambiguity and sometimes even paradoxically just keeping on going even though it's so complex and there's always multiple viewpoints that one might take to to a situation. In my life and view it's of course also closely related to all the spiritual and religious background and then those dynamics. And I was happy that you have a chapter on spirits in the book and you discuss also many aspects related to religion and various spiritualities.

Doherty: Yeah. Well spirituality is a major calling card in this work and I find it's a it's an entry point to many people. Even the people here in New York that I've been talking to in the city. The spiritual angle is actually a very common one for people. Yeah. You know I have a manifesto for flourishing I call it in the book. You know it's this little kind of a self affirmation that you could say around being happy that, you know, sort of a realistic scenario that I challenged the reader to, to take on. I could read and go over that a little bit right now.

Pihkala: Yeah, I was just about to ask that that would be very interesting.

Doherty:

Yeah. So let's do that. And so this will be a little bit the way I present this in in in public as I do it, I presented as a little validation exercise, a visualization. So I usually ask people to become quiet and to go inward a little bit and have comfortable close their eyes and, and take some deep breaths and just just listen. It lends itself to listening to and being being kind of entertained verbally. So I'll do that right now. You know, it's a statement that summarizes what flourishing in an era of climate crisis can look like.

And you know, the goal is to imagine the scenario for your life. So listeners, can, if you're able to, in in your listening situation, if you can close your eyes, that's helpful. But otherwise, just take this in deeply and listen as I speak. And again, taking a couple deep breaths. Maybe making some sounds like Panu was talking about, you know, you know, get some air out.

Yeah, good clean breaths and then just settled in and I'll just read this.

I carry the weight of climate change on my shoulders. I feel anxious about the heat of the summer, the air quality, the winter storms, and the future. My internal alarm systems are going off all the time. But I can take a step back and acknowledge this: I'm conscious of how I'm thinking about the world and maintaining a growth mindset. I'm prepared to discover things are much worse than I thought. But also at times better.

I'm practicing emotional intelligence. I stop and ask myself what I'm feeling and also what feelings I want to have and to cultivate and grow stronger. I remind myself that sustainability begins with my own foundation of personal health. I'm strengthening my relaxation response so it can balance my stress response. I know that if I feel hurt about the state of the environment, it is a signal that I car

I remind myself that climate change is not my fault. Even as I take on responsibility, I understand that forces of power, nationalism, and unregulated commerce are driving much of Earth's systemic troubles. Even as I feel like a hostage to dangerous forces, I focus on what I can control. I remind myself that political systems are created by people and they can be changed.

When the media announces new threats, I remind myself, I already know. I might not know every detail of the story, but I am familiar with the larger narrative. Nature is not just a place outside of me. I am nature. I have a unique environmental identity and a set of experiences and values that gives me a place to stand on the planet. Even as I am part of the web of life, I am also weaving it.

Even as I struggle with feelings of fear and eco anxiety, I step back and see these as normal emotional responses. I know that standing up and publicly recognizing my eco anxiety is a healthy form of self-expression. Regardless of who is listening, speaking my truth out loud generates energy for action. I am a work in progress, but I have new skills and I'm building a toolkit for coping. I know I am so much bigger than my climate anxiety.

I can still feel happiness at this time.

Pihkala: Hmm. Wonderful. Thank you very much, Thomas, for reading that out loud and writing that. I believe it will be validating for many people. And to the book, it also brings an important element of sort of vulnerability or ambiguity. it's kind of different voice from all the parts where the main focus is on good things that the therapist has been able to help people with.

Doherty: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So being able to fly under our own wings and to and to just tell ourselves honestly that we're doing our best and that again, just because I care, it doesn't mean it's my fault. Right. Just because I'm aware doesn't mean I need to be sad all of the time.

Even in a disaster, literally a disaster event, there are moments of happiness as we struggle and find places of survival and help other people. So yeah, but again, it's something it's something to practice this this kind of happiness we're talking about is not something that's always spontaneous. It's something that needs to be practiced. But we can do it, we can do it. So it's you know, flourishing is ayou know, happiness is something maybe sport, spontaneous and wild, but flourishing is something that is cultivated, you know, it's something that you put effort into over time. Yeah.

Pihkala: Yeah, and I think closely related to self-acceptance and self-compassion. I was thinking of Tara Brach, the mindfulness teacher and writer at an earlier point in our talk today and her ideas of this trance of unworthiness which so easily is in people's body minds, especially in our neoliberal capitalist society is this sort of nagging sense of not being enough and then practicing self-acceptance and self-compassion as I hear you say I think is a highly, highly important matter and also counter-cultural.

Doherty: How do you mean? Yeah. How do you mean countercultural?

Pihkala: Because so much of our culture is tied with ideas that one should always be better and do better and buy or acquire more things to be more advanced and have more status, have a bigger house and more impact in your work and that kind of thing.

Doherty: Yeah.

Pihkala: It can be seen as counter-cultural to be happy with less and to practice self-acceptance.

Doherty: Yes, exactly. Yeah, the legom, you know, that that concept of legom that they have in Scandinavia, just just enough, you know, that we put when we pass around the, the horn of drink, you know, there's enough for everyone to drink from just we just get enough and we can share and yeah, yeah, something. Logom, sorry. Yeah, logom. Yeah. So yeah, so yeah, these are this that is countercultural, countercultural to maxing out and especially at the end of the year, a lot of the celebrations that at their heart are really about this gratitude and grace and just enough and enjoying what we have. It's easy to lose that in all of the sparkle and tinsel of the commercial items that are all, you know, climbing over the top of all of that stuff.

So yeah, coming back to the heart of the matter. So great conversation. It's nice checking with you Panu and remind myself of some of these things.

Pihkala: Likewise, Thomas, likewise.

Doherty: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So let's wrap it up. But listeners, we talked about a manifesto for flourishing a little bit today, and I shared some of that. So hopefully it's landed for you. If you're new to the podcast, that's kind of what we do. And if you've been listening, then this is where we come back. It's a long haul project here. So, Panu, good luck with your military training and all your responsibilities there. And we will speak to you again soon. Everyone be well.

Pihkala: Take care.

[music: “CC&H theme music”]

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Season 5, Episode 7: On Hiking and Zen with Brother Phap Luu