Season 1, Episode 15: Climate Music Pt. 2: Thomas's Playlist
image credit |Daniel Schludi
Season 1, Episode 15: Climate Music Pt. 2 Thomas's Playlist
Part 2 of our exploration of climate emotions through music: Thomas’s playlist “Shifting Basslines of the Cornucopians” — its title inspired by the Snapped Ankles number, and having a double meaning: Shifting bass lines in the music that inspires us and “Shifting Baselines” in how each generation perceives the natural world. As Thomas notes: “My themes are water and fire, being a hostage to Capitalism and Climate Change, finding refuge, transformation, and our all-togetherness during these challenging times. As Courtney John sings “Yes we are sailing in a different boat. But we are sailing in the same ocean.” In my mix, I am inspired by a variety of sources, the old time music of the Carter Family, the cathartic punk of The Thermals, the immersive ‘Become…’ series of Alaskan composer John Luther Adams, and the tribal techno of ‘Land Back.’ We are nostalgic (and solastalgic) about the beautiful ‘Flatlands’ in ‘The World We Knew’ while the ‘Sword of Damocles’ hangs over our heads. In this ‘Cruel Summer’ with ‘No Snow on the Mountain’ we hope that ‘Somewhere’ there is a place for us.”
Let us know about the music that inspires you to express your climate feelings.
Links
Storm Warning, Finland
KEXP, Seattle, Washington, USA
Music Declares Emergency, United Kingdom
The Shifting Baseline Problem: Explanation, Findings and Findings
Accelerando: Anthropologist Thomas Hylland Eriksen on the age of acceleration.
Transcript
Transcript edited for clarity and brevity.
[music: “CC&H theme music”]
Introduction voice: Welcome to Climate Change and Happiness, an international podcast that explores the personal side of climate change. Your feelings, what the crisis means to you, and how to cope and thrive. And now your hosts, Thomas Doherty and Panu Pihkala.
Thomas Doherty: Hello, I am Thomas Doherty.
Panu Pihkala: And, I am Panu Pihkala.
Doherty: And welcome to Climate Change and Happiness. Our podcast for people around the world, around the globe, who are thinking deeply about the personal side of climate change. Including their feelings and responses to the climate crisis. And some episodes I've been looking forward to, Panu: Talking about music and playlists—and how we can create our own kind of climate list, a climate playlist of songs that evoke [our] climate change feelings. Emotions and just sensations. And we've been chatting a little bit about your playlist. And I'm going to talk about mine. Tell me a little bit about music and the role of music for you, Panu, in your life and how it links with climate change for you?
Pihkala: Yeah. We discussed it in the previous episode, if you listened to that already. Music is a big part of both of our lives and we both play some instruments. For me, I started with piano lessons when I was five years old. My older sister played the piano very well. And I was like “why do I have to learn this?” So it was really a lack of motivation. I learned the basics and then let it go. But then I got excited about popular music when I was about 13 and started to play some more. And then after confirmation school camps, which are [a] very popular thing in Finland still, you know, young people [were] playing together. So then I got excited and started to play the piano really a lot and moved on into improvising a bit later on. So that's the sort of main thing that I do within instruments. And it also helps greatly with emotional expression. But how about you, Thomas? Would you like to share something about your history and relationship with music?
Doherty: Yes, Panu. I'm music lover: a “musicophile”. And it's always music. Popular music in particular has always been really important to me and my identity. I've been lucky enough to live in key places for music like New York City in the late 80s. And Seattle in the early 90s. And Portland where I live now. And so, I think music, as I was saying, you know, earlier when we were talking about this … Music allows us to express ourselves. Express our feelings in a way that sometimes we don't have a word for. And also how we want to feel. You know, some of my playlist songs are upbeat, danceable music. And they might be very political and very radical, but they're also, there's a dancing energy in there.
So I'm influenced by post-punk music like Gang of Four. You know, that makes songs that both can be danceable and political. So, you know we're so embedded in this system. The dark ecology of a modern world. And the hyper objects of climate change [as we] talked about in past episodes with Timothy Morton's idea. So the music, I think, more than most things helps me to express that. And you'll see that come out in my playlist. Some of that sense of being embedded in a system. Sometimes that's beyond our control.
Pihkala: Yeah that's a very cool point, Thomas. And music is funny in the way that it can combine both the darkness and light. And, of course, many artists use this intentionally. And creating interesting mixes of both gravity and lightness. And it's great that music can spark so many things. Even the same song for different persons, or for the same person in different parts of life. So it's very rich. Would you like to share a bit about your playlist in general? What did you have in mind when doing this difficult job of selecting songs?
Doherty: Yeah I'll launch into the playlist here in a second. I want to recognize groups like Music Declares Emergency in the UK and I think it's myrskyvaroitus.
Pihkala: Myrskyvaroitus.
Doherty: Myrskyvaroitus. Storm Warning. The group in Finland. These are musicians working for the climate. So there are musicians that not only are expressing themselves. Doing expressions on our behalf. But also taking action in terms of climate. Even sustainability within the music business. And addressing the carbon impact of the music industry. So I want to shout out to them. And to KEXP which is a station. An international station based in Seattle near where I live that I've been a long time listener and supporter. And it's where I get a lot of my musical community. I wanna mention them. But we'll have links to some of these things in our show notes. I'm going to launch it. And then Panu just feel free to interrupt me as I'm going.
My playlist is called “Shifting Baselines of the Cornucopians.” It comes from the title of a song by Snapped Ankles. A British band that I'll talk about a little bit. But that title speaks to me. Shifting Baselines obviously, you know, is a double entendre there. It's bass music, but then shifting baselines is this idea of how our baselines about what the world is keep shifting. Each generation we lose perspective on what's a healthy world and we have to keep reminding ourselves what we're striving for as some parts of the world become more degraded. Or we lose things from the past like species and places. And cornucopians, you know, is this idea of the endless, you know, the endless ability of capitalism to keep creating things. And endless growth. This cornucopian idea in economics is something that is a bit of a religion as you know. And we have to be careful about that because it isn't necessarily true. We do live on a planet. So this Shifting Baselines of the Cornucopians is kind of a lot in the title.
Pihkala: That's a very interesting title. And a lot packed into that song. And quite heavy criticism of such a worldview where only money matters. Money or wealth is also present in the opening song, I noticed: "Mining for Gold'. And you have several themes in the playlist.
Doherty: Yeah. My opening song is a classic from the Cowboy Junkies “Mining for Gold” from their 1987 Trinity Sessions record. Which is a very important, beautiful one that I've listened to for many years. And the voice of Margot Timmons there. And this theme of the song. It's an old mining song. Hardrock mining song updated for the late 20th century. But it does speak to this idea of going to work. And this paradox of, you know, "I feel like I'm dying from mining for gold" and I think that's a very telling line just in our modern world. And it takes a new resonance during the era of climate change. This idea that we're trapped in systems that we're working through that are actually hurting us and even killing us. And that just becomes plainer and plainer as life goes on. And so there's an economic kind of trapped theme in my playlist. Certainly the "Shifting Baselines' ' song from Snapped Ankles as well even though that's an upbeat dance number. As they say "it's a great time to be alive if you only you've got some funds." So it speaks to inequality.
Of course, I've got the classic George Harrison song "I Me Mine." The “naked” [production] version of that song. And that I think is one of the greatest of his songs. And it speaks to that. I think we could play the "I Me Mine" song in the background as the COP 26 and 27 meetings occur. And it really puts a context to the world that we live in. And so there's definitely an economic sort of idea here that weaves through. I mean it's the economics and there's also fire and water. Those are the other themes in my playlist.
Pihkala: Yeah. Before going into fire and water, it's that sort of hell and high water theme. We'll hear about that very soon. But stopping for a second. These two dimensions both have an implicatedness. Being a climate hostage as you have often described it, Thomas. And then also this greed element—"I Me Mine"—which of course can be sort of trapped. That people very easily get swept into because many of the values and mores are such in our societies. It also brings a link to one of the Finnish songs in my playlist, this "Kynnet, Kynnet", "Nails, Nails." Which has a line that — "minä minä minä muiden ilmaston pilaa." Which is literally translated "me me me ruins other people's climate." So that was a funny point of connection between "I Me Mine" on your playlist and this Finnish song of mine. How about this fire and water? Sort of contradictory elements, but both very closely related to climate change, of course.
Doherty: Yeah. I mean the second song on my playlist is a cover of the 80s song "Cruel Summer." Another classic 80s song. A recent cover by the artist Joon. But, again, these are songs that capture the ominous nature of the modern world. "Cruel Summer" is somewhat of a lightweight kind of pop song that evokes other summery pop songs — of being away from your loved ones or being lonely in the city. But the "Cruel Summer" the way the tone is — "it was a cruel summer." You know, the last few summers have been quite cruel here where I live. They've been hot. We've had these heat disasters. And so it takes on this ominous tone. And then the era of Covid as well. This idea of being isolated and in the heat dome. I thought that "Cruel Summer" really captured that for me.
And then "The People Under the Stairs" a classic LA, Los Angeles [hip hop] duo. Their “The effects of climate change on densely populated areas…” is a great rap song that really gets into the — I think it actually does better than some research studies on extreme heat and how it affects people in neighborhoods and in communities. And, you know, speaking to the tension and the violence and the discomfort. So that song really captures some of the heat that we've been experiencing.
And then, again, an old song by the Carter Family, "When the World's on Fire." Which is an old gospel song. But, you know, it has that kind of biblical fire element to it. But of course the tune is the same tune that, you know, Woody Guthrie used for "This Land is Your Land." The classic folk tune to the song. And so it's got an eerie resonance when we have the evocation of "This Land is Your Land" and "When the Worlds on Fire." So I think, again it captures the multiple feelings that are coming up, you know, around this work.
Pihkala: Yeah. And it comes close to people like it has for you. The heat waves were quite severe in the region where you were living as you described. So, talking about the direct impacts, also. In addition to the indirect and ambient ones as you and Susan Clayton put it years ago. Talking about the impact of climate change. And of course because I have this history with religion and theology, it was interesting to see several songs that make quite an implicit connection with religion. For example, when listening to this Carter Family song, which was new for me. There were lots of new songs in your playlist for me. And that was very interesting. I couldn't help thinking about this sort of religious type of denial of the climate reality. Which is one aspect of the interconnection between religion and climate change. There's several others, like very ardent climate activism that we also see among some religious people. But also these various forms of disavowal. Would you like to speak some more of this, you know, religion connotations in some of these songs?
Doherty: Yeah. There's a strong religious theme in the Thermals’ "Here's Your Future." The Thermals and there's also a cathartic element in this playlist as well. And the Thermals is a classic punk band from my town of Portland, Oregon. And, well, I'll leave it to the listeners to find that song. But it really evokes biblical floods. Again that brings us into the water theme. But it really is kind of a lashing song about really throwing the future into our face, so to speak. And it really, I think, like some of your songs that you shared. You know, like the Smashing Pumpkins song you shared in your playlist. You know, it is very cathartic. Gets some of our anger and some of our feelings out.
And then we have the water theme that is through this in terms of the ocean. I mean there's this “Strange Boat” song by the Waterboys. Another classic song. It just evokes this journey that we're all on in the modern world. It's like being in a strange boat, in a strange sea. Just a beautiful kind of reflective song. And Courtney John, kind of a roots reggae song. "Yes we are living in different boats but we're on the same ocean." From his Ecosystem album. So it speaks to just being all together. We're all together on the same ocean here.
Pihkala: Yeah. There's several songs in your playlist which very strongly speak about the theme of journey. And also that we are in this together. But also, speaking about strange times. So in a way I thought that this "Strange Boat" song captures many of the elements. But I think, also from our contemporary reality. That's of course part of the anxiety, literally speaking, because there's so much uncertainty. And not all climate anxiety is strong anxiety. There's also just the uncertainty and thinking about what we should do and where we should try to sail with this company that we have.
Doherty: Yeah, exactly. And there's the recent song from the group James, "Wherever It Takes Us." You know, and I know some of the members of that group were affected by Covid. And by fires and things. So the "Wherever It Takes Us" song is kind of a dizzying kind of anthemic song. But it also evokes someone really fleeing from a disaster and just finding some refuge in a car. Maybe from a fire. Or from smoke. And then this idea "We're all in wherever it takes us. We're all in it and it breaks and it shapes us. We're all in wherever it takes us." So it's like we're all in this together. And we're all in this journey. The word of the day on my dictionary app was accelerando. An Italian word for something that's speeding up. So there's an accelerando sort of note to the music, but also to our world. And we're all on this journey that's speeding up.
Pihkala: Yeah. That's very interesting. And the song is very poignant. I was quite struck by this song. It's disturbing and it's powerful and very interesting. There's a lot to take in. And this accelerando of course links with the work of some anthropologists who have spoken about Age of Acceleration. Describing the 20th century and the speed. Of course this theme of trying to ride a car somewhere, which sort of can be escaping, but it can also be a need to survive amidst very strange circumstances. So there's lots of symbolic elements here.
Doherty: Yeah. And just, you know, The Weather Station. Tamara Lindeman shows up in both of our lists. This Canadian artist who goes by Weather Station. I had a chance to see her and her band play in Portland nearby at Mississippi Studios here just the other week. She's, you know, gotten some press for her sophisticated take on climate consciousness. And understanding of some of the feelings. At least just naming this. And, you know, again this news intake. Her lyric "thinking I should get all this dying off my mind. I should really know better than to read the headlines. Does it matter if I see it? No really can I not just cover my eyes?" That speaks to this kind of idea of tuning in, tuning out. You know, the “Sword of Damocles” – a classic song from Lou Reed’s "Magic and Loss." Which is a whole work. It's about illness, cancer and AIDs. And various themes. Medical themes. What a beautiful album. But the Sword of Damocles, this idea, this thing is hanging over our heads. And just speaking to someone who's having [an illness], you know, in a hospital bed. And thinking about their end of life, you know. So it evokes some feelings I think people have about the state of the world.
Pihkala: Yeah. The song "The Atlantic" is very striking also. And links with the stuff that's going on in the world, currently when we are recording this. There's the war in Ukraine and the latest very gloomy IPCC report has come out. And many of my colleagues in the University are also having difficulty just concentrating on their work. And this topic of limiting your media diet. That you, Thomas, have been speaking about for a long time. And we've also discussed it in the podcast. So that's been very important, also in relation to contemporary times. I did notice that you have this element of transformation also in some of these songs. And some hints towards sort of eco-psychological notions. Would you like to dwell a bit on that?
Doherty: Yeah. Yeah, that's where this playlist goes. I mean there's this "No Snow on the Mountain." This idea from the band Nada Surf. Just the reality of no snow on the mountain. This kind of ironic use of the Frank Sinatra song “The World We Knew." ["Over and over I keep thinking over the world we knew."] This old kind of loungey Frank Sinatra song, but it really speaks to the world that we knew. The world that we knew, it's going away. It's gone. It's lost. It's slipping from our fingers. But solace, resistance, “Land Back.” This native song. This very strident dance techno-native song, “Land Back.” So it speaks to really reclaiming the land. Reclaiming our place, you know. And "Raconte-moi une histoire" You know, the M83 song. The beautiful song of the young girl's voice with the frog. You know, it really sort of opens us up to global consciousness. And the beauty of global consciousness. And the connecting that we have. So there is definitely transformation in here. Then there's this sort of deeper water, you know, solace theme that comes up as well.
Pihkala: Yeah. And I know that you are very fond of John Luther Adams. The composer who makes these long nature-themed compositions, like this “Become River”, also at the latter part of the playlist. And I also thought about including M83's "Outro" in my playlist, but opted [to] not. But that sort of outro you have here "Somewhere" from West Side Story. So, is that a glimmer of hope or a manifestation of hope at the end of the playlist?
Doherty: Yes. Yeah, I mean there's a song "Flatlands" by the artist Mark Lanegan, who is one of my favorite all time artists and we just lost him. He just died this past week. And so of his many beautiful songs, "Flatlands" is a beautiful song. A cover song. But it kind of evokes beautiful, calm places. Flatlands. Farms. Trees. I think it's what we all yearn for. It's just a place to be on the planet that's safe and nurturing. Some place that we can be. And so I want to really have that image. And then again, the "Troubled Waters" song from Michael Hurley. The classic American kind of out-there folk music.
And then we have this "Troubled Waters" in the Flatlands. You know, flatlands are usually flooded, obviously. And then John Luther Adams. It's not an exaggeration to say it was kind of life changing to come to John Luther Adams' music. And his beautiful orchestral works "Become River", "Become Ocean," and "Become Desert." And I think "Become River" is, you know, consciously climate change-related. But it really embodies being a river from the earliest ice and snow. Through the huge, wide Ganges Delta. The music embodies being a river. And it does have that ominous rising waters at the end that speaks to both, you know, ocean [and sea level] rise. And yes, having recently seen the new version of West Side Story. And sort of being aware of this somewhere. There's this lighter, reprise again. This somewhere, a place for us. So I do believe there is a place for us. You know, there is a place for us somewhere. And we're going to find it, and we're all working toward that together on this strange boat, you know, that we're on right now. So that's it. Yeah. I think that covers my list.
Pihkala: Yeah. That's a beautiful way to wrap it up. And, of course, water is sometimes used as a metaphor for both music and emotion. So I think it's very fitting. And dear listener, you can find our playlists on Spotify. You know the ambiguities related to Spotify as [a] platform. We are trying to live with this ambivalence. And please do share your playlists with us, also. Or your favorite songs which speak to you about living amidst the climate crisis. This is [the] Climate Change and Happiness podcast. We are interested in all things that are going on in these times.
Doherty: Yes, climatechangeandhappiness.com is where we live. And keep making music and keep listening to music. And take care.
Pihkala: Take care everyone.
